Friday, December 12, 2008
The Coalition and the Latest Bad Poll
The Great White North can be so dark and depressing at this time of the year. Sometimes I just feel like jumping on a plane and never coming back.
Especially when I read a poll like this one.
Almost two-thirds of Canadians say they want Michael Ignatieff, the new head of the federal Liberal party, to seek a compromise with Prime Minister Stephen Harper to keep the Conservatives in power instead of joining the New Democratic Party and Bloc Quebecois early in the new year to defeat the minority government.
And there is enough bad news for EVERYONE.
The survey results said the Liberals have not improved their electoral prospects - so far - by picking Ignatieff earlier this week to replace the unpopular Stephane Dion. Those surveyed favoured the Conservatives over the Liberals by 45 per cent to 26 per cent when no leaders' names were mentioned. The 19-point gap was repeated when the question was rephrased to name Ignatieff.
And all I can say is aren't we lucky we have Quebec?
The only place the coalition had majority support was in Quebec, were 62 per cent gave the idea a thumbs-up. Opposition was strongest in Alberta where 80 per cent were opposed.
And WTF is happening to the rest of the country? Does it really hate Quebec....or Gilles Duceppe... THAT much?
Of course I'm not giving up. As I said yesterday I believe that the only reason the Coalition has done badly in the polls is because it hasn't been sold properly. And because it's just a baby.
With no money, no newsers, no photo-ops, no videos, no songs. Just a whole lot of HOPE for a new and better Canada.
But if we want to change all that we'd better start soon. Canadians can't support something when they don't know what it looks like. Or what it has to offer. And the baby is DYING.
I still think if English Canadians can be shown how beautiful it is, and how it can provide the stable government we need at a time of crisis, they would choose it over the evil Con government of Stephen Harper. The tyrant who has raped our country, and shutdown our Parliament.
But for the first time a small sliver of doubt has crept into my soul. Maybe Canadians aren't the fighters I thought they were.
Fear can do terrible things to people.
Maybe the Great White North isn't the place I thought it was...
Gawd.You know what they say. First they feed them. Then they shear them.Then they cut their throats.
And the poor creatures are too dum to know what is going on. And what is going to happen to them.
Oh Canada. BAAAAAAAAAH.
I hate the dark days of December.
Long live the Coalition !!!
Down with the tyrant !!!
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I'm with you Simon. The problem is to find out what the polling questions were, as Canwest is the payer.
Do you have a link to the actual poll and questions - as the devil is in those details.
The framing of the questions is what is important.
For all we know, it was a form of "push polling" which makes one respond in a certain way.
Take heart, Simon! There's still six weeks to go. A lot can happen during those six weeks.
Because I can!
There is a big problem. I read that a great many people don't like too far left..they had enough with Dion, and I guess there are many who think he is still there.
Don't worry too much right now. Ignatieff only had his first press conference on Wednesday. His message hasn't sunk in. The poll was for Tuesday to Thursday. Give it some time first...then worry.
It's not a push poll, it gives the exact same results as the other 3 or 4 outfits on this question. Canadians hate the idea of a coalition. Period, to suggest otherwise has more to do with personal want, than rational thought. Canadians hate this coalition so much, that Harper, whom they mostly blame for this crisis, actually gets a boost, that's how bad it is.
Can it change? Anything is possible, but with a economic meltdown occuring, the Con attack machine trashing a coalition, it's hard to see a seismic change, particularly when the results, from all the pollsters, are so one sided.
So Steve do you have a link to the actual poll and questions? Just wondering because when I know it was Canwest behind the poll, and the owner hated the coalition idea, one needs to know how the questions were framed.
The coalition should focus on an economic frame, and not bend to the conspiracy frame.
Sure hope Iggy is not going to be Harper's coalition partner and his bum boy.
And Dion was not left, he just couldn't communicate well besides the linguistic issue.
The family pact class hates the coalition as it puts democracy in the hands of the people rather than in the hands of backroom dealers, moneyed elite, and the power brokers.
Can we kick Quebec out of the country?
Simon, I'm one of the ones who doesn't want the coalition. I'll vote conservative in order to defeat the coalition. And it's got nothing to do with "Quebec". I like Quebec, I detest the Bloc. That's who I'm voting against. That's who a lot of us would vote against. The Bloc Quebecois.
I know the media is saying it's a coalition of Liberals and New Democrats, but that's not true. It's a coalition of Liberals, New Democrats, and Bloc Quebecois. We don't want to hand power to the Bloc because we are afraid of what they'll do.
So... as long as the Bloc is a partner, expect at least 45% to vote Conservative. Personally, I think it's more than 50% that would go Conservative.
If the coalition is DEAD then I can sleep at night. STUPID, stupid idea to put 3 tramps into the same bed, under a cardboard box to fight for the best spot...stupid!
Give it a rest you Bolsheviks. The best thing that could happen to Canada is a majority Conservative government. The coalition is undemocratic and it is clear that the left is scared to death of an election because they know they are going to get waxed. Bring on the election!
I rarely comment on Blogs but I must point out that no, most Canadians do not hate Quebec or the residents of said province.
What most people find offensive is giving yet more power to a party designed from the ground up to utilize the threat of separation to either A) eventually separate, or B) to continue to get a disproportionate amount of Federal government consideration on a variety of issues.
Yes, you may chastise me as hard as you like in the rest of the comments because yes, I am a conservative and yes, I think the coalition has far less to do with democratic ideals than it does the threat of losing taxpayer funded subsidies that the three(and sort of four counting the greens) rely so heavily upon.
What witnesses saw, although not shown by media that I have seen, in Parliament in the final week prior to the proroguing was a delighted Gilles Duceppe miming the turning of a large steering wheel to say hey everyone, I am in the driver's seat.
From my perspective I want Canada to stay together.
I have no quarrel with the province of Quebec or it's people.
What the polling is showing is that Canadians are tired of the come here-no go away attitude of the Bloc Quebecois/Parti Quebecois among other things. Canadians do not want to give power to this dynamic.
I do wonder how one thinks that democracy via the coalition is placed in the hands of the people when all three of the party leaders formally in the coalition stated emphatically during a campaign that they were not building a coalition.
If it were not for the 300 million dollar price tag, I would be jumping up and down and saying...
If you want the people to have their say on a coalition...
Have at it and put it to a vote.
Then the only question is do you trust the people? Will you live with the result or will an election somehow be skewed?
Hope your weekend goes well in spite of how horrible you think the state of affairs is politically.
PS, You may want to send Kate at Small Dead Animals a thank-you card for the traffic.
Simon, choose a place in the world I'll gather a few friends and we'll gladly pay for the one way ticket.
North Korea or Venezuela are good places were you can enjoy all the benefits of a socialist paradise.
What has happened is that the Canadian people, despite the extraordinary efforts of the MSM, has seen through the bs of the coalition to the REAL reason for this attempted coupe and THEY DON'T LIKE IT. It has gone from blaming Harper for the situation to accepting the fact that it occured from an action he took-BIG DIFFERENCE. The polls also showed that over 60% of Canadians did not like public money going to political parties to the tune of 30 million a year. The reason that there was no hue and cry prior to this was that most Canadians just weren't aware of it. But once they became aware their anger boiled up.
So Canadians have seen right through the false indignation of the opposition parties re: the economic update(It was not a budget)and seen the situation for what it really is-an attempt by the Liberals to get power by whatever means possible even if it destroys the country.
BTW, you shouldn't feel too bad about this. The MSM, the great representatives of the people(and conservative haters)got it all wrong as well and they were more surprised than anyone.
And Oh, the vitriol coming from liberals never ceases to amaze me.
Simon, you've got to be kidding!!
Mini-Marx orchestrates a coup attempt so that he and Deuceppe can implement a form of government that they both know they'll never get the votes to implement.
Dion was along for the ride, thinking that he might just get to be PM, even if he had to dance like a puppet on the string of the NDP/Bloc puppet masters to get it, and you're surprised that Canadians hate it with a passion?
Go to the poles and watch the numbers drop for the Dippers, Libs and Bloc too. Electorally speaking, it is going to be a blood bath, and well deserved too.
Sorry to hear the weather’s got a grip on you. Was born in Sherbrooke, Quebec and quite frankly don’t miss the Eastern weather. The West Coast rocks.
"Hi, I'm liberal and I'll talk down to you for disliking people. For example, if you do not like Quebec, you are a horrible person. In fact, even if you DO like Quebec, I'll still assume you do not and call you a horrible person. Also, if you do not agree with my politics I'll call you a sheep and say you don't like Quebec and...you guessed it, call you a horrible person. You may wonder why I'm calling you sheep, well, haha, good question my knuckle-dragging right-wing friend, it's obviously because you are not smart enough to think for yourself. The only reason you would ever disagree with me is if you were brainwashed by the Conservative party - as opposed to brainwashed by the CBC...er, Liberal Party, I meant Liberal Party. Hi, I'm liberal and everything I think is the correct and ONLY way to think. You can call me Simon."
"... the evil Con government of Stephen Harper. The tyrant who has raped our country ..."
"Fear can do terrible things to people."
Oh, and as for the other polls that someone had asked for, there is this from Ekos:
A Compass poll here (the link to the PDF is in the upper right hand corner):
The coalition is doing badly because it was not elected, people see it as a power grab, they have yet to state their policies, the Libs/NDP will have to rely on the Bloc to keep them in power, yet we do not know on what terms, (how much money to be diverted to Quebec from Ontario and the West, hence the surge in the popularity of the Conservatives in Ontario), need I say more, it is very simple to figure out.
Oh by the way the majority voted against Jack and Olivia in their respective ridings.
Quite frankly, I don't like Quebec one bit. Ontario is starting to get on my nerves too, for their continued pandering to Quebec while looking to Western Canada to smile and again get sodomized by a bunch of smarmy Frenchman "for the good of the country."
What did you expect?
Btw, lots of this Harper bashing really irritates the West in its own right. This is the first prime minister of any significance from the West in over 4 decades. Most come from um... where again? To watch all of you go into hysterical fits like 3 year old children over it is annoying, but to slap the face of the West and not care shows just how silly this is getting.
"Screw the West, we'll take the rest," has been the motto for decades - and it worked for a time. Trudeau won a majority government once without winning one seat west of the Ontario border - and then proceeded to rape the West in favour of Quebec. Many westerner's hearts still start beating faster when they remember what that Marxist did. Chretien hated the West so much, he could barely contain himself - and he certainly rarely bothered to show his face here.
But now, here we are, decades later. The population of the West now positively DWARFS little Quebec, and like the Coalition, they just can't face the fact that they are no longer the belle of the ball. It is true that Quebec is somewhat necessary to win elections in Canada - but, make no mistake that it is doubly true that one cannot win a government without the support of the West.
I kind of feel like when my older brother by ten years used to beat me up on a regular basis when I was a kid, and there was nothing I could do about it... he tried it again - to bully me around with threats - for the last time when I was around 30 years old, and he was told that from now on, being younger would always be to my advantage, and if he ever threatened me again, I would paste his sorry ass all over the place, because I could - and I always will from this point on.
Keep slapping us across the face. Keep calling us redneck, racist, stupid hicks who don't know anything - see how much we start to hate you. What do you expect?
If the coalition succeeds in overthrowing Harper, I predict the separatist threats from Quebec will no longer be the main separatist threat in Canada, as it will be obvious that even though the West stood by and took the sodomization for decades because we didn't have enough votes and had to respect "democracy," it appears that when the shoe is on the other foot, the whiny babies in the east have no intention in respecting the 1/3 of us western pigs who are obviously NOT as equal as you.
Run Bloc Quebecois representatives out West, and I guarantee they will get votes. What are they scared of? Actually being forced to do what they always threaten?
It will never be the same again. Remember that, and learn to share the toys and play fair.
Ignore the con trolls and their hatred - just anger and divide and conquer (well they are hoping).
Coalition supporters see where 3 parties put their differences aside for the good of the country, and where the Bloc agrees to support the Liberal/NDP coalition govt.
No wonder Cons hate it.
When cons invade your blog cause of your posting, one knows that they are scared of the coalition coming to power. They know that if the coalition came to power, it would be end times for duopoly in this country for either con or lib govts.
Hence why the dealers, elites, and brokers (who always benefit no matter which of those two power parties are in power)will do anything to ensure it does not happen.
Don't hate Quebes, just tired of thier give me, give me, give me......
Jan from the bruce:
"it puts democracy in the hands of the people rather than in the hands of backroom dealers, moneyed elite, and the power brokers."
You are kidding, right? NDP is run by Union leaders. At 15% of the vote, hardly representative of the average Cdn. Liberals are running out of money because they always counted on donations from big business. Even MI gets his job because of the Lib elite in Mtl & to. Hardly your average folk.
hahaha you've got to be kidding me. sell the coalition properly???? talk about putting lipstick on a pig, lol'z.
this coalition was doomed to start with and its only dorks like you that think it is still going to work.
Looks like you just got owned on your own blog.
Do I hate Quebec. Not at all.
Am I tired of listening to threats of seperation after 40 years? Yes I am.
If you don't like the results from the last election work a little harder in the next one.
The weather has you down? Buddy, it's mid December, it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Canada is in far better shape than most of the world.
If you want to go, then go.
If Quebec wants to go, then go.
We'll muddle along without you.
This isn't hatred or disrespect.
A liberal Liberal against baby killing? That makes for a change.
And your baby analogy is correct in another respect, Simon, the coalition baby certainly knows how to suck.
[Enjoy the SDAlanche. It'll probably be your best traffic all decade. Bye.]
"The family pact class hates the coalition as it puts democracy in the hands of the people rather than in the hands of backroom dealers," -- the lack of logic here is nothing short of breathtaking. How exactly does a backroom coalition deal that completely ignores the results of a free election "put democracy in the hands of the people." Ohh -- maybe "people" in this case is just supposed to refer to people in labour unions -- kind of like the way they use the term "workers" to only refer to those who work for those generous union wages.
Yes those damned Conservatives must be brainwashed. I wonder what it takes for someone to vote Liberal after Shawinigate, APEC pepper spray incident, choking a young protester, HRDC boondoggle, useless Billion-dollar gun registry, Sponsorship scandal, the list is endless. Harper has nothing, NOTHING on Chrétien when it comes to being a bully. The Liberals love to spew about how they slew the deficit, but lets look at how they did that. For starters they campaigned on axe the tax, claiming they would kill the GST, yea right, Liberals actually cutting a tax will never happen. Then they cut transfer payments to the provinces, which simply transferred the deficits from the federal to provincial governments. This had the effect of seriously eroding our health and education systems as the provinces were unable to keep up with costs. When huge surpluses started to rack up, did they cut taxes? Did they pay down debt? Did they replace the cuts to provincial transfers? No, they used that money on whatever would buy them the most votes. The Liberal party of Canada is quite simply the party of power at any cost Canada be damned. Creating a coalition where the second largest party is one hell-bent on the destruction of Canada as we know it shows their lust for power in a very clear light. That is why the majority of Canadians would vote Conservative. The sheep of course will still vote Liberal. That’s YOU Simon.
Steve V. was mostly right.
He's only wrong in the sense that the public hates Harper but hates the coalition more.
It has nothing to do with love hate, but everything to do with who people trust to lead them through these difficult times.
Simply put, Harper's the man people want. People realize we don't need a man we can sip wine with to steer us in these difficult times.
That that opposition has acted so irrisponsibly in forming a coalition with the seperatists, only exxacerbates the situation.
The commenter above who said the CPC support is closer to fifty may even be understating it, as all the past polls undercounted the CPC/Lib spread by about 5 points, and anecdotally it appears right.
That's right Simon, you need more 'newsers' and photo-ops, if you had that you would REAL credibility. Or something like that.
Face reality Simon, ROC doesn't hate Quebec, we simply despise the Bloc and other separatists. Quebecers that want to be part of Canada are more than welcomed, whinging weenies that only try to extort more and more from me are greeted with somewhat less enthusiasm. It's reality, learn to live with it.
I love the undemocratic label. The coalition has as much democracy as a union. You know,vote for someone and they vote for someone but you don't get to actually choose the leader or anything but the guy that went to the convention and traded his vote for a shirt and a ballcap. Good government isn't always giving someone else's money to the rationalized victim, sometimes it is for the betterment of the people. Not just people in southern Ont. and Quebec. The problem is being from the West we have been screwed by the Liberals so many times that they are an old, old act. You don't see it because it was always in your favour. Then democracy broke out,we had an election, there was a winner and the whiners couldn't accept the results. There was no coalition to vote for otherwise there would be a majority Conservative gov't. Iggy isn't going there regardless of the BS. He signed the papers but it is a Hinterland deal in the long run...Dumb.
OMG.That'll teach me to drink and blog eh? Seriously though...I won't be able to answer all these comments individually as I usually do because there are just too many of them, and it's SUNNY today so I'm going biking. And I think what I'll do is write another post maybe later today or tomorrow to try to answer some of the questions raised. But I'd like to thank everyone for those comments, including those from Small Dead Animals. I'm always interested in hearing from ALL Canadians, no matter where they come from, because I don't hate any part of this country. My Canada includes Quebec AND the West.
But I do want to clear up some things.
(1) Although I am a progressive, I'm not a Liberal, I blog for fun, I don't take myself too seriously, and I sometimes enjoy myself by annoying EVERYONE.
(2) I don't hate Conservatives. How could I when my dad is one? I just dislike Stephen Harper because I think he's bad for Canada, bad for everyone including the Conservative party. After all if it wasn't for him the Conservatives would probably have had a majority two years ago.
(3) When I say Stephen Harper raped this country...which I probably shouldn't because it's such an ugly word...I mean that although he has a minority government,he has forced policies on the majority instead of trying to seek a consensus, which I believe is the Canadian way.
(4) When I put in those sheep I wasn't aiming that at Westerners but at ALL Canadians. And the reason I did it, apart from having a little fun, is because it astounds me to see how many Canadians seem shocked by the very idea of a coalition. When it's part of our Parliamentary system, and is pretty common in other civilized countries like for example Germany....which has a RIGHT-WING coalition.
What I am seriously concerned about though is the growing gulf in this country, and I hate the way Stephen Harper has pitted one part of Canada against the other. Because I think that's dangerous, and I'd hate to see Quebec leave, just like I'd hate to see Alberta go. I think both provinces are awesome, and we're stronger TOGETHER.
And that's it.... thanks again for your comments, and have a sunny day eh?
P.S. One thing that did bother me a lot was those comments about how my blog is hard to read and looks like a halloween costume !!! Gulp.
Now THAT'S a cruel blow. I like the black background because it shows up pics better.But I might have to do some experimenting. So watch out, get your welder's goggles ready. Here comes glowing neon... :)
PPS....I'd also like to thank Alberto for offering to pay for my ticket to North Korea.That's very nice of him but I wouldn't want him to spend all that money, when a ticket to Cuba would do quite nicely. You see I've been there before and it's FABULOUS. Viva Fidel!!! Otra Cuba Libre por favor...
Maybe it's just the results of the past 40 years of watered down education, but the writing seems especially juvenile.
This idea of a coalition is like Sesame Street on crack. Cooperation if necessary, but not necessarily cooperation.
It is nothing more than 3 Amigos attempting to rob the treasury to buy votes.
The mere fact that Quebec is all for it presents sterling evidence that it will be very bad for the rest of Canada.
Canada is tired of being bitch-slapped by Quebec's and that is playing out in what is happening right now.
The USA is tossing trillions as it's economic problems with small result. Those are all the Leftists including what's left of the Bush regime. He is the most socialistic president since Jimmy Carter. Now the Obongomites are taking over down there. It's going to get a lot worse.
Under the imperfect Harper government, Canada is moving in the other direction after so many years of of soul-destroying socialism. This is a good thing for Canada and for keeping the West interested in remaining part of it.
Get over it Quebeccers. Even though it's usually all about you, this time Canadians are paying attention. Most of us do not hate you, but you make it very hard to like you.
Bankrupting our grand children to pay off a Union lunch pails who chose to work in a dying industry while not learning to do anything more than punch the clock and load up the credit cards.
I guess no one told them that it is wise to always be prepared for a bad time. To employ life-long learning so you can create opportunities for yourself and adapt to changing times.
Isn't the mantra of the left 'hope and change' ... Well things are changing ... embrace it y'all.
Sorry to expand on the bad news but I have just returned from 5 weeks of work across Canada (NB, NS, Alta, BC, ON). The problem from the Liberal view point is not that English people don't understand the Coalition, it is that they DO. The overall consensus is that one group has absolute overall control of the government and laws at the expense of the rest of the country. If it were just the Liberals and the NDP most of them could swallow a coalition especially if a coalition were the majority party + one minority. But, because the goal of the separatists is destruction of the country they cannot understand how any government could allow them to have any say. A coalition of Liberals and Conservatives would be warmly received in all of the provinces. Maybe, it's time to change the system from an antagonistic one to a more democratic/cooperative one.
"When it's part of our Parliamentary system, and is pretty common in other civilized countries like for example Germany...."
For one, I don't know of any coalition governments that include parties whose mandate is to break up the country.
Setting aside that aspect, if you look at the UK, coalition governments are extremely rare. So coalition governments are NOT necessarily a part the Parliamentary systems.
But you are correct, there are Parliamentary Democracies that have coalition governments like Australia - "The Coalition in Australian politics refers to a pragmatic grouping of centre-right parties that has existed in the form of a coalition agreement since 1922." See how different that is? It's not sprung on the electorate after a general election in some back room deal that gives Elizabeth May a Senate seat. It's a clear coalition that the people of Australia have been voting for for decades. Also, their use of preferential voting helps make sure these coalitions reflect the will of the people. Again, VERY different then Canada.
And yes, coalition governments work in Germany. But believe it or not, this isn't Germany. They have a completely different form of Democracy with a whole different approach to voting, to division of power among the different branches of government, etc. So unless you're proposing we change our entire system, I'd recommend comparing apples to apples
Frankly, I am tired of Quebec holding the rest of Canada hostage. Instead of threatening to leave if you don't get your monetary handouts, just leave. We'll all be the better for it.
After years of this pathetic game, the rest of Canada, especially the West has had enough. I do not want my hard earned money continually spent on propping up Quebec and its endless whining and social programs.
In fact, I think the time has come for Canada to hold a referendum on whether Quebec should stay within Confederation or be banished back to France.
Sarkozy can pay for you....because I for one, am sick of it!
Constitutional experts and historians like Professor Emeritus Desmond Morton would be dismayed to read the comments on this blog. What a woeful lack of knowledge of our parliamentary system of democracy.
Every Harper conservative speaking point that has been peddled by the media and right wing reactionaries is based on ignorance of our system.
I agree with Jan that some of the poll questions used where probably biased. One of the earliest ones by Ipsos Reid framed their questions on Harper conservative talking points. Blogger the Canadianist tracked down the PDF document with the actual questions.
Harper's success is largely determined by the corporate media propping him up and pumping out misconceptions, positive spin and lies, much like what we saw with George W. Bush in his first term as President.
The "coalition is a socialist-separatist coup" is our version of "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction". Pure propaganda that has been repeated ad nauseam.
By the by, I love the look of your site Simon.
"raped our country"????
Please define how?
Simon - how about some facts?
First, coalitions may be common in other countries but not in Canada. These other countries vote with proportional represenation and the electorate knows that the winning party gets the right to form a coalition government. This is not the case in Canada.
Please remember, not one Canadian voted for a coalition government. Not one. This was a post-election decision by three people: Layton, Dion and Duceppe, which was then signed by all their MPs. This is a violation of our democratic rights. We voted in a government on Oct.14 and our MPs have no right to, on their own, then deny us the results of our vote. Their duty is to represent our will, and we didn't 'will' them to, on their own, form a coalition.
Second, this coalition is profoundly undemocratic. Not only is it an unelected group but it set itself up as immune to the electorate. How? By using the Bloc, a political party out of the reach of over 80% of the Canadian electorate, to act as the sole Vetting Agent for all confidence votes.
This not only is an abuse of the Bloc MPs parliamentary duty to represent the electorate rather than a party, it renders the votes of ALL other MPs in the House totally irrelevant. They might as well stay home for the only vote that counts for a confidence Motion is that of the Bloc.
This has nothing to do with Quebec per se. It has to do with setting up a governmental system that is immune to the electorate by ensuring that it won't fall - because you are using a small regional party as sole Vetting Agent. Whether this regional party was located in the Yukon, BC or Quebec isn't the point. What matters is that the full electorate can't reach it. That's a blatant violation of our democratic rights.
It's setting up a system of Taxation without Representation.
To introduce the red herring that criticizing the Bloc role in this coalition is 'bashing Quebec' is nonsense. The undemocratic framework of this structure deserves strong criticism and has nothing to do with Quebec.
The rhetoric that 62% voted against Harper is also nonsense, for that suggests that the only reason you voted NDP OR Liberal OR Bloc OR Green OR marxist-leninist etc is for one reason- against Harper. Rather than for the specific and different policies of each party.
This coalition is deeply anti-democratic. If you support a coalition, then, you ought to put this proposal to the electorate for a vote. Our government belongs to us not to the private decisions of some backroom powerbrokers.
Do you really believe that people who speak out against the coalition are sheep? Really? If that was true, it would be "We have to trust our betters to know what's best for us." as I saw a commenter post on another site. Sheep go where they are herded. They don't stand up to the collie. Ever.
Is Harper divisive? If by divisive you mean he makes decisions and leads then I guess he is.
Concensus usually means doing what the guy that finished third wants. Thats not leadership. If the guy that finished third was that great he wouldn't be third would he?
As for divisive, you need to read some history my friend. The National Energy Program was and still is divisive. The gun registry was designed to divide rural from city. Equalization is divisive. No offense, but progressive usually equals forcing someone else to pay for something you want and they don't.
Have you looked at the cost of living and unemployment in Germany? They have huge problems they can't fix because they have to prop up that coalition. That's the dog being wagged by the party that finished eighth or twelfth. Ontario and B.C. looked at proportional representation and rejected it because it would lead to just such a mess.
As for Cuba. Canadians love Cuba because there are no Americans there. Most are smart enough to know it's a dirt poor third world dicatorship that is nice to visit but not so nice to be forced to live in. And I do mean forced. You don't emigrate from there, you escape.
The west is virtually unanimously against the coalition. There are a lot of things to be against in this situation. That 3 central Canadian politicians would get in a back room and decide against the will of the people what the government would look like is anti Canadian and anti Democratic. The 2 parties that agree on running the government between them only got 110 seat, this is stability? This is democracy? That they want to run the government without the mandate from the people is against everything that a Canadian Democracy is for. No one voted for a coalition they voted for the parties and there platforms.
To say that the people opposed to the coalition are anti Quebec is a canard. We want Quebec as an integral party of Canada. We are against a separatist party holding the balance of power.
If the coalition wants to run the government go to the people. Seek a mandate, get elected. That is the Canadian way, the democratic way.
You were on serious drugs when you posted what you did, right? After all, no one in their right mind would try to peddle the notion that the media is in alignment with Harper! NO ONE!!!
As for Desmond Morton, I suggest you Google "Ted McWhinney", a prominent Canadian constitutional scholar. He asserts that the democratic will of the people plays an integral part in the legitimacy of any elected government. The fact that you so easily dismiss this shows how little respect you have for democracy. Might that be connected with the first half of your moniker?!
But if you & Jan really believe that the Coalition's actions were perfectly normal then please cite one example - JUST ONE - in Canadian history where such a Coalition has assumed power just a few weeks after a democratically elected minority government assumed power.
We're all waiting...
So four polls in a row come out, showing absolute disgust in the Coalition by the majority of Canadians and you & Jan just dismiss these as "biased". Unbelievable.
Every time a Conservative gets elected in this country, it must be because of "trickery" or just "ignorant voters", right?!?
These days I'm reading a book by historian Tony Judt about Europe after WW2. He describes in great detail how the Communists quickly took over power throughout all of Eastern Europe, always through murder and other devious tactics. With your truly sick world view you'd have fit in very well as one of Stalin's henchmen.
If you are a Canadian, then you are truly an embarrassment to your nation!
You can take all your bourgeoisie friends with you Simon? Since I already pay for your sorry ass, I don't have a problem paying your way to a climate more temperate for your socialist ways, like Iceland.
Simon, you weren't listening when Duceppe crowed that the coalition is good for SOVEREIGNTY (a sentiment which was echoed by Pauline Marois and Jacques Parizeau. If you support the Bloc and want Quebec to become a sovereign country, then why not be honest and say so?
And to anyone who thinks that Duceppe would work together with the Liberals and the NDP for the good of Canada, you are hopelessly naive. In a coalition government, Duceppe would have them both by the balls to extract as much as he could for Quebec, and Canada be damned.
Thanks, all of us here in Alberta find this post hilarious and idiodic...
When can we vote on whether to kick Quebec out?
Every political scandal, kerfuffle, boondoggle involves Quebec.
I'm for a Quebec-free Canada. Or a free Western Canada. Take your pick.
Looks like most of us want you and Quebec voted off the "Island." And, while we say a cheery bon voyage, we'll also make sure Quebec takes its portion of the national debt.
That "no free ride" concept is sure going to be one bitter pill. I dare say it will be quite entertaining for Canada to have a NEW Third World country next door.
Gee, you don't seem to be taking this well do you. You've just discovered what more than half of the people in the country really think of the 'Coalition of the Shilling' that you seem overly attached to. In January, one of two things will happen, either the Liberal party will let the budget pass, or we'll have another election leading to a Conservative majority. The Coalition will not take power, thank God. Anyone who still believes otherwise is clearly delusional.
Simon, you show an amazing lack of knowledge of the "rest" of Canada. I have lived in two provinces in the west all of my life. My Canada has always included Quebec. The problems we experience today extend back to PET and his patriating the constitution without La Belle Province's signature. We are tired of being held hostage and being forced to pay extortion on an ongoing basis. Look at the last election. Harper was denied a Majority in part because Quebecers decided to hedge their bets by voting for the Bloc. As long as Quebec continue to support a separatist option, they should not be surprised that there is mistrust and misunderstanding from the rest of Canada. Quebec sends out mixed messages and then the rest of Canada is supposed to read their minds to figure out what they really mean. For us, it is black and white, a vote for the Bloc is a vote for the breakup of this country. If Quebec wants to be taken seriously withing the Federation, then they should quit holding a gun to our heads and vote for a federalist option that can properly represent their views within cabinet and government. The "rest" of Canada will not accept a coalition which owes its only means of survival to the separatists. It will not happen!
To the leftover SDA spleen venters. Please read this poem: The Churlishness of the Conservative Conscience.
We've already seen that the coalition is rejected by Canadians and that although the Cons have lost out in Quebec, the Liberals have dropped farther than they have. So, question: why are you still angry knowing that Canada is on our side? It's official - the west is in. Try not to push Quebec out as you get your foothold mmmmkay?
Sheep is looking pretty appropriate right now.
Con trolls rule. The SDA army has arrived and set up a perimeter. Impressive. That said, knowing avowed Liberals are either bitter or bemused by coalition-deflating polls is, of course, cause for quiet satisfaction. The "Coalition" was and remains a dog's breakfast. Thick as most are, credit a significant percentage of Canadians for recognizing this salient truth.
Darn, spent too much time reading all the great comments. Now I have to decide...post my own rant against the coalition created by Jack the whore, or go send flowers to the Harpers for Christmas?
That was easy.
Follow this link and read carefully.
The law of unintended consequences may be coming to visit soon.
Ooooooo! Wookit all the dumb, long-winded conservatives! Thanks, Small Dead Brain Cells!
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