As you may know, Richard Spencer is one of the leaders of the so-called alt-right movement in the United States. The one who gave it its name.
He claims he is not a neo-nazi, but he is a white supremacist.
Shortly after Donald Trump's victory he was caught on video whipping his supporters into giving him the Nazi salute, after he screamed "Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!!!"
And now he's back in the news after being punched in the face while attending Trump's inauguration.
And as the New York Times reports, that has the internet asking: "Is it OK to punch a Nazi?"
And I must admit I'm conflicted. On the one hand I hate Nazis, my grandfathers who fought them taught me that when I was a boy.
On the other hand I hate violence, and strongly disapprove of sucker punches. Or for that matter punching anyone in the street no matter how much you despise them.
I didn't always feel that way. When I was an angry teenager I got into a lot of fights with skinheads, anti-gay bigots, and other fascist scum. And we probably spilled enough blood to fill a bath tub.
Until Sébastien, who also knew violence, of the military kind, came along to restrain me, and convince me that violence is a dead end.
And that this is the road to victory...
The power of massive peaceful protest, like the amazing Women's March.
And the birth of a mighty progressive movement.
One that will sweep people like Richard Spence into the garbage can of history, along with his Fuhrer...
Still when I read of the foul bigotry of some of Trump's supporters.
I feel really angry again, and have to spend about half an hour pounding a punching bag and pretending it's a Nazi, or a Trumpanzee.
Signs like this one make me laugh...
And I'm having the hardest time trying to decide which musical meme I like best.
Will it be Bruce Springsteen?
Or will it be New Order?
The left needs to stop taking a spoon to a knife fight.
But is it OK to punch a Nazi?
Help me, I'm confused...
Hi Simon For me he answer is an emphatic no. If we give ourselves permission to assault those we don"t like we also give them permission to do so as well, where does that end?
ReplyDeleteI was born into and nurtured in violence and the one lesson I've learned is that while sometimes necessary everyone loses when applied.
hi Kev...yes, that's true. If everybody started attacking each other in the street we would be in trouble. Although Spencer did kind of ask for it by apparently wandering into the middle of an anti-fascist rally. But don't worry, Seb can kill person with his bare hands in about ten seconds, so I listen very attentively to everything he tells me... ;)
DeleteHa ha, love the video! I have refrained from watching the video until now, as. I have a deep aversion to violence. But I hate Nazis too.
ReplyDeleteI think the women's march gives many food for thought. All those numbers, those adorable hats (they owned it!), and no violence. The human spirit is strong.
TS
p.s. I also hate shaming people for what they wear, but Kellyanne Conway's Gucci outfit proves that one cannot buy style. Michelle Obama beat her and Melania on Inauguration Day with her demeaned and outfit. Funny, Melania's powder blue suit, while beautiful on her, was another rip off. Michelle and Jacky are in a select club of their own.
hi TS...yes all in all I would definitely have preferred to attend the women's march rather than beat up Spencer. I think. But speaking of fashion sense, I MUST get one of those pussy toques, although I'm thinking blue not pink... ;)
DeleteMe too, I want one. Maybe my mom will knit me one, she's always been an activist in her 82 years. But I think you need to call it a "kitty hat" young man ;))
DeleteCorrection, I meant to write "demeanour" in my fashion blurb. Michelle Obama was full of grace and beauty on Inauguration Day.
TS
Hi Simon.
ReplyDeleteIt is definitely ok to punch a Nazi. Legally wrong, but ethically, fuck yeah.
hi anon...now, now, let's not mix business with pleasure. Beating them up (in public) might turn them into martyrs, and could be used by Trump to turn the U.S. into a police state, even sooner than planned...
DeleteWell, I am not in favour of punching anyone but for a Nazi, I might make an exception as the B***&& are dangerous and would happily punch anyone weaker.
ReplyDeleteSome rather amusing thoughts on doing so.
http://thoughtsonthedead.com/on-the-propriety-of-punching-nazis-an-faq/
hi jrkrideau...thanks for the link I quite enjoyed it, especially this answer:
DeleteWhat happened to letting the other guy throw the first punch?
Nazis don’t throw the first punch. Nazis burn the first Reichstag.
The experience of those who waited too long to fight back isn't a good one...
Hi Simon. As a large person with many years of self defence training I believe in using violence only in cases to protect myself and my loved ones. Nazi punching is just as reprehensible as hippy punching. I do recommend keeping a watch on Nazis and being prepared to deal with their call to violence.
ReplyDeletemr perfect
hi anon...my karate instructor taught me the same thing, although I'm afraid he was frequently disappointed. ;) But yes, I believe what you say. Violence should be the last resort, and we should be better than they are...
Deletewrong!
DeleteYou are guilty of using false equivalency to support your position. There is an undeniable difference between a hippy and a Nazi. One is deserving of a punch in the face whereas the other is not.
Mr. more perfect than you
.. think of your life.. as if you're a spinning top.. You know.. you're spinning perfect and true, balanced & on a lovely smooth surface.. really humming. And on that smooth surface are other tops doing the same thing. Lovely - Harmony. Those other tops are exemplars. You always want to be around them.
ReplyDeleteNow if you choose to spin near unbalanced tops.. there's no upside - all downside - collisions are certain and will knock you off balance.. Now you're both unbalanced, ready to spin out.
There's a moral to this story.. and you'll be among the least likely Canadians to need it explained. But stay far away from the unbalanced.. Don't engage, fight with them, or buy into their vicious twisted game. They're trying to drag you into their cage. Seek out exemplars - the payoff is astonishing. If you do have to go to war with losers.. ie last resort.. smite them hip & thigh
Keep up the excellent work, Simon !
hi salamander... thanks !! I normally do try to stay as far away from anything neo-Nazi, and I never troll them or anything like that. And since I was once stabbed by a Protestant bigot in Glasgow I'd rather not repeat the experience. And when I venture too close to Ezra Levant I always remember to wear a gas mask... ;)
DeleteI've reconsidered my earlier comment. One should punch out any NAZI one encounters.
ReplyDeletehi jrkrideau...what happened? Did you down a bottle of Scotch since your last comment? But seriously, I will never understand or accept that so many soldiers died fighting the Nazis, but now it's OK if they walk freely among us...
Deletehttp://forward.com/fast-forward/360757/after-being-punched-by-anti-trump-protesters-richard-spencer-demands-alt-ri/
ReplyDeletehi David...oh great. I wondered how long it would be before Spencer started forming his brown shirt brigade. But that's good, because up to now he has been able to masquerade as a "good Nazi" and that made him more dangerous than the others....
DeleteThough I don't condone sucker punching anyone, in this case I can understand why a black man would do that to this racist scum. Black lives mean nothing to them so my thoughts are if you want to spew hatred and violence then you best be prepared to receive it. He's lucky a punch is all he got, this time.
ReplyDeleteJD
hi JD...good lord, first jrkrideau and now you. You're all a bunch of beer garden brawlers and I'm going to have to pretend that I hardly know you ;) I'm opposed to sucker punches because one when I was fighting some guy one of his friends through a piece of brick at my head. But I still won the fight. The guy saw me lying on the ground with blood all over my face and thought I was dead, and him and his friend ran off before the police arrived, leaving me to claim victory... ;)
DeleteFunny how it's always Trump supporters being accused of violence but it's your protesters and antifa thugs attacking people and destroying property.
ReplyDelete-MC
Is that so, MC? You mean no protesters were punch by Trump supporters at his rallies, none of them had their signs destroyed, cameras seized by Trump's right wing supporters? All fake news also? Keep lying away, you good little christian.
Deletemr perfect
hi MC...if there weren't any fascists there would be no fascists. And while I'm not a big fan of the Black Bloc, your side's Nazi skinheads are far worse than they are. As I told the others, thank goodness martial arts gave me the confidence not to fight anymore...
DeleteI think we have to Simon. We have to learn to fight back, going high isn't working. That election proves it. MC has to realize if the right wants to play the victim we'll give them something to really cry about. They won't have to make it up anymore. My cane is at the ready. Thank you for the New Order Video. I thought I recognized that song.
ReplyDeleteI hear The Rebel sent his Deplorable to a peaceful march to antagonize the women. Whoever that hero is we should crowd fund for his defence. I'm sure they've exaggerated it up to attempted murder now. And they call us snow flakes. Sunny Ways Simon 💙❤💜 Pamela
hi Pamela...I can't believe it, you too? And with a cane no less? I could be arrested for just associating with you people ;) But seriously here's what I think. The left should definitely form self-defence groups, so no Nazis can push us around. But we are more than them, and if we deploy the power of peaceful protest like those amazing women just did, and turn that spirit into a mighty movement, we won't need violence to see them carried out in a wheelbarrow...
DeleteRoger Waters - "Pigs (Three Different Ones)"
ReplyDeletehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=QWLBtMz5OuY
Is it Ok? Most approaches to morality require one to stand up against evil. If one is silent when witnessing evil it is often interpreted as condoning evil. Not every WW2 German was a NAZI, but how would one determine who was a "good German"?
ReplyDeleteThe assailant in the video demonstrates moral courage, even if his or her act is not legal. Personally I think it was a woman who did the hit and run on this much larger man. In any case it was a smaller person. (Note that she used an "Empi Uchi" or elbow smash rather than a punch.) That act of moral courage came with a whole lot more risk than getting arrested. The bully counts on physical intimidation. The most likely outcome of throwing a punch was the start of a fight and in the USA that risks use of knives and guns. Nazi boy had his henchmen at his side.
On a personal note, my Canadian Irish mother who was in the RCAF in 1945, always taught us that we would never be in trouble at home if we fought for the right reason. My sister punched out a bully who roughed up our younger brother in elementary school. Mom and Dad were proud of her.
In conclusion, it may be morally necessary to punch a NAZI, even at the risk of being beaten, stabbed, killed or arrested.
p2p
hi p2p... nice to hear from you again. I used to teach kids how to defend themselves against bullies, so I can't really disagree with you. The old adage about bullies being cowards really is true, and just standing up to them is sometimes enough to make them run. And good for your sister. I believe in a kinder, gentler, world, but to get there one must be prepared to be as hard and as ruthless as they are...
DeleteUpon further review of the video, I conclude that it was a man who threw the elbow smash.
DeletePenalty declined, offensive team first down.
p2p