He can try to hide behind big legal words. He can claim he didn't know. But nobody can deny that this is a brutal assault on gay people.
The Harper government is being accused of taking away same-sex rights by “stealth” in light of a surprise government stand that non-resident gay and lesbian couples who flocked to Canada to exchange vows really aren’t legally married after all.
He can claim he isn't reopening the gay marriage debate, when this stealth offensive, like the one on abortion, was carefully crafted by the religious fanatics that run the PMO. And he is reopening the debate, by sticking a knife into the side of gay equality.
For most Canadians, same-sex marriage is a settled issue and part of the landscape. Despite some people’s fears, Stephen Harper’s government hasn’t used its majority to reopen the marriage debate in Parliament. But in two recent cases, government lawyers are taking a position that is inconsistent with gay men’s and lesbians’ hard-fought equality.
And not just here but also in Britain.
At taxpayers’ expense, the federal government is intervening in legal proceedings to oppose recognition of the civil partnership formalized by a Canadian citizen in Britain. This action undermines British efforts to recognize the equality of same-sex relationships.
In both cases, we shouldn’t let the technicalities distract us from matters of principle. A government proud that Canada’s Parliament has granted equal marriage rights to gay men and lesbians would stand behind such marriages, however other countries saw them. And a government supportive of equality would affirm other countries’ efforts to recognize gay relationships.
He has hurt and humiliated gay couples all over the world.
And disappointed millions and millions of other people who looked to Canada as a beacon of hope.
He has damaged the cause of bullied gay kids, who he has NEVER lifted a finger to help, by sending out a negative message, that some are more equal than others. Even as so many are killing themselves. Just so his rabid base can splash around in their blood, or pray to their evil Godzilla.
He fooled so many Canadians, but he never fooled me. Because I knew what others should have known. Stephen Harper has always been a cold, cruel man, who enjoys the pain of others.
And as I pointed out.... two years ago.
He has ALWAYS been a homophobe...
Oh yeah. Here's to the scream that wasn't heard. Now cry for the beloved country. And the message going around the world.
Once we were noble, now we are ugly. Once we were so big. Now we are so small.
And then fight them, fight them, fight them.
Unite to defeat those hideous Cons...
my comment at galloping beaver:
ReplyDeleteI think Steve is too smart to let this stick to him. And I believe he really didn't know about this.
They'll fix the "not recognized in your country so not recognized here" problem. It shouldn't matter what
is or is not recognized in other countries. Otherwise we would also be expected to recognize polygamous
marriages from other countries, right?
As for the 1 year residency requirement for divorce, they will probably remove that. I'm not sure why we
have it.
It won't piss off his base to let gay marriages be dissolved, now will it?
So he'll fix the problem in a reasonable way and use it to paint the left as shrieking ninnies when all
they had to do was point this out. Like who really know about these archaic rules?
He'll gain lots of reasonableness points here, which is what he needs for the next election.
This? This is the most ridiculous debate I've ever seen!
ReplyDeleteNOTHING has changed. NOTHING! Not one thing has been affected by this argument!
Florida has banned same-sex marriage by constitutional amendment. Right, or wrong, we seriously expect Canadian Law to be recognized in Florida? Are we seriously that arrogant?
Because of that, the marriage is of no legal force in the State of Florida! We don't have to grant them a divorce, why would we? If these ladies want to get "divorced" it's no trouble, they can simply stop living together, because where they live, what happened up here is not legally binding and of no legal force!
Anyone who lives here is STILL going to have their same-sex marriage recognized as a being of full legal force, and Stephen Harper isn't about to change that! The difference being that we RECOGNIZE AS LEGAL, and as EQUAL, same-sex marriage. Are these foreign citizens really so stupid that they think they need the permission of the government of Canada to stop living as a married couple!?!
This is ridiculous! NOTHING has changed. NOTHING!
Sorry, but that's a grotesque distortion of the entire story. This has far more to do with courts and jurisdictions than anything the Harper government did.
ReplyDeleteNothing has changed, YET, but only because this is just a Justice Department opinion and not a court ruling.
ReplyDeletehi liberal supporter...what you say may be true, but I'll believe it when I see it. But I'm afraid that I don't trust the Cons as far as I can spit. And the fact that they would use taxpayer's money to intervene in the debate over equality in Britain, suggests to me that they are more invested in this issue than they would have us believe.
ReplyDeleteBut whether it's ideology or incompetence gay people have to live with the uncertainty and the bullshit, so you can be sure if I can use this episode to club the Cons I most certainly will...
hi anonymous... I'm afraid that you are ignoring this part in the court filing:
ReplyDeleteJustice Minister Rob Nicholson tried to clarify the situation Thursday, saying the government was looking at ways to make divorce possible for same-sex couples who came here to get married and now find themselves unable to get divorced. That would be welcomed by many. But it does not address the more explosive issue — that the government, in the court filing, says these couples were never legally married at all.
This has major implications for couples who live in states where gay marriages performed in Canada ARE recognized, so it's not just a question of the situation in Florida.
For them this isn't just a question of legalese it's a question of life and love.
And reopening the debate, whether by design or incompetence, is the last thing that gay people who live here need.
Finally, as the person I quoted in my post says:
A government proud that Canada’s Parliament has granted equal marriage rights to gay men and lesbians would stand behind such marriages, however other countries saw them.
It's a matter of human decency and in that regard the Harper Cons have proved over and over again they are
sorely lacking...
hi rabbit...I admit that I am a partisan not a journalist. And that I can sometimes be too harsh. I further admit that when I wrote this post I was angry because I have very little tolerance for any nonsense over gay marriage. But I remain unconvinced that this is simply the work of rogue officials, because in a government as tightly controlled as Harper's one, nothing happens without a green light from the PMO.
ReplyDeleteBut we shall see, in the meantime we are left a totally unnecessary argument over gay marriage, which as I mentioned above has only hurt people, and damaged what's left of our image abroad...
hi RWW...that's true, but it also means that many gay couples have been left in a state of limbo while we wait to see what the government does. Can you trust the Cons to do the right and decent thing? I certainly don't...
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid that you are ignoring this part in the court filing:
ReplyDeleteNo, actually I'm not. The divorce act has a one year residency requirement, and I'm guessing that's because of the one year cooling off period, or reconciliation period, at least in Ontario. In Ontario, for a so-called no-fault divorce couples seeking to get divorced cannot simply appear before a judge and state that their marriage doesn't exist etc. etc. They must first be separated for a full year before the marriage can be formally dissolved. In other words, even if this was a straight couple from Florida, it would be against the law for them to be granted a divorce in Canada.
This has major implications for couples who live in states where gay marriages performed in Canada ARE recognized, so it's not just a question of the situation in Florida.
NO! Actually it doesn't! In states where gay marriages ARE recognized, as long as gay divorce is also available in some form, then there's no problem at all. A state which recognizes a gay marriage from somewhere else would be bound to arbitrate and formally divorce a separating couple in accordance with their local laws.
For them this isn't just a question of legalese it's a question of life and love.
No, it's not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people cannot love each other and build a life together and be married, and this most certainly transcends gender object preference. But there are in effect two types of "marriage" that exist. The first is the real marriage, and this is the relationship that a person has with their partner. The second is the legal, state-sanctioned institution of marriage. In other words, if my religion allows I can swear an oath or whatever along with my partner whomever they may be, and we can declare ourselves married, live like a married couple, and nobody can realistically say anything to try to disprove, or disavow that marriage, BUT, it is of no legal force. In the legal world, and only in the legal world, the marriage will not be recognized, there are no documents, there's no registration, there are no licenses. The marriage is entirely real, and valid, and no judge can take that away. At most, after two years, we'll enter into a common-law relationship, at least in Canada, which is of some legal force.
The state-sanctioned marriage on the other hand is a legal contract. It has effectively no force outside of the legal realm - two people could go their separate ways, even though they were still under contract, and nobody is going to say anything to them until the walk into a court-room. Various arms of the state accord different rights and privileges to people who are legally married in this sense, but beyond that, there's not much to it.
ReplyDeleteAnd reopening the debate, whether by design or incompetence, is the last thing that gay people who live here need.
It hasn't been re-opened. Canada still recognizes gay marriage, and presumably gay divorce. People can come here and get married, but if they live elsewhere, well, our laws aren't binding on other countries.
If I'm a Muslim living in Saudi Arabia, and in Canada, I marry an Israeli Jew, and we move back to Saudi Arabia, the marriage ceases to be of legal force, because in Saudi Arabia, Muslims are not allowed to marry Jews. If we adopt the local customs, we can live as married, and nobody is the wiser. Now, it's Saudi Arabia, so I'm sure there are more consequences arising from this extremely unlikely scenario, but legally, we're not married in Saudi Arabia. To get "divorced" in Saudi Arabia, we merely have to stop living together, because in Saudi Arabia, the marriage is effectively a legal fiction. I imagine things would be different if we lived in Israel, and presumably, we could get a formal divorce if we lived in Israel. Or in Canada.
There is no debate. In Florida and Great Britain, this marriage is a legal fiction, and so effectively here as well, but only because they live in places where they can't legally get married, and presumably, they're going back to those places where the marriage is a legal fiction once their done trying to extort $30,000 out of Canadian taxpayers. In other words, to dissolve the marriage, all they have to do is shred their marriage certificate and say, "We're done." Or something equally symbolic, there's no legal barrier to stopping them from simply splitting up.
Now, if they want legal, state-sponsored ARBITRATION of their protracted, and contested divorce, well now that's a slightly different but mostly the same issue. They don't live here. They don't pay taxes here. Why should we pay to dissolve their marriage, when they can just split up and it's of the same effect? A divorce is undoubtedly expensive, and that's probably the second reason for the residency requirement. So if they want to move back here, pay taxes for a year, THEN, we'll happily pay to arbitrate their divorce.
A government proud that Canada’s Parliament has granted equal marriage rights to gay men and lesbians would stand behind such marriages, however other countries saw them.
And the government is. Nothing has changed.
It's a matter of human decency and in that regard the Harper Cons have proved over and over again they are sorely lacking...
No, it's not. It's a legal question, and the Harper Cons didn't pass the divorce act. That would be government of either Lester B. Pearson, or Pierre Elliot Trudeau. And it was amended by Brian Mulroney's government.
The Government in this case, is just following the law.
here's an example.. a foreign couple comes here and in the course of their travels gets married and buys some Canadian medical insurance from one of our private providers. They were married here legally and now when they've been paying for that insurance for three years and need to claim on it.. well, golly.. you don;t qualify as a legally married couple.. "Gof cuk your hat," says the insurance company. " your insurance is invalid because you lied on the forms! According to Herr Harper you aren't married because the Ayatollah, your traditional national God and all-around good guy with acceptable ideologies to us Canucks, doesn't like queers." Yes it DOES MATTER. Canada is a joke if we don;t recognise the weddings performed in our own country.
ReplyDelete