tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post2275421936162304306..comments2024-03-03T17:01:57.876-05:00Comments on Montreal Simon: Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper's Terror TrapSimonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-36342237042131688452015-02-06T19:24:59.690-05:002015-02-06T19:24:59.690-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-55844838831220973252015-02-06T11:32:10.492-05:002015-02-06T11:32:10.492-05:00If being "weak on terror" loses out to &...If being "weak on terror" loses out to "weak on democracy" then Canada is already lost. There is nothing "reasonable" in this bill, not one thing. If one of the most important debates on civil liberties can't happen because "Harper set a trap" what does that say?<br /><br />It's a nice thought, Canadians really want to believe democracy still exists here, but it doesn't. There is a much simpler explanation for why Trudeau would support the bill: because he believes in it. Calls for oversight are misdirection, that is NOT the primary criticism of the bill nor do I have any faith in the Canadian government and it's useless agencies to oversee anything so Trudeau's promises he will fix the bill WHEN HE IS ELECTED are completely meaningless, you would have to be an idiot to fall for that.<br /><br />You should be calling Trudeau out Simon, not supporting his cowardice, or lies, whichever they turn out to be.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15473265775588031435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-76054399765347493902015-02-06T03:31:08.424-05:002015-02-06T03:31:08.424-05:00Remarks by Liberal Party of Canada Leader Justin T...Remarks by Liberal Party of Canada Leader Justin Trudeau on Bill C-51<br /><br />http://www.liberal.ca/remarks-by-justin-trudeau-on-bill-c-51/Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630890163958807048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-66593007686271313452015-02-05T22:35:49.981-05:002015-02-05T22:35:49.981-05:00Agreed, Simon.Agreed, Simon.Christinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-91327476183508621312015-02-05T16:48:02.201-05:002015-02-05T16:48:02.201-05:00Trudeau may have a point, with his response to the...Trudeau may have a point, with his response to the bill. It might just be better if everyone ignored stevie and then waited until the elections, they people can vote and when stevie is shown the door, the new government can repeal what they don't like. On the other hand if stevie, wins the next election, we have all this ugly legislation...........<br /><br />Then it will be time to find another country, because the majority will have decided they don't care about democracy, and we may not want to live in a dictatorship.<br /><br />As I've written before harper is the terrorist. He creates terror in this country by what he does and doesn't do. We know he supports Saudi Arabia and permits Canadian firms to sell them armaments, so he supports terrorist governments, because Saudi Arabia funds many of the radical jihadist groups. Nice going stevie. It would be just so much fun if the RCMP arrested a "real jihadist" and the person said they got their orders and funding from Saudi Arabia. Oh, what fun and election would be then.<br /><br />The opposition parties simply need to keep publicizing harper's "deeds", that lovely picture of Arthur Porter says more than several thousand words.e.a.f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-80699700979401120162015-02-05T14:09:24.324-05:002015-02-05T14:09:24.324-05:00He didn't avoid the trap. He stepped right in ...He didn't avoid the trap. He stepped right in it.<br /><br />https://www.change.org/p/intlcrimcourt-arrest-harper-for-inciting-genocide/u/9535681Morlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16127053781975840041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-40197540638608151022015-02-05T13:31:21.784-05:002015-02-05T13:31:21.784-05:00That you are likely correct, Simon, is a comment o...That you are likely correct, Simon, is a comment on the extremely sad state of politics, specifically the electorate, in Canada. It says that we are unable to think critically and rationally, and are easily led like zombies chasing fresh meat to vote against our best interests because the deeply broken electoral system does not serve our representational needs. <br /><br />We are so conditioned against critical thought that a situation like you outlined has arose and come to pass, and it's going to hurt us badly. We're choosing to bend over the barrel and willingly spread our ass cheeks for government ideology to violate us all. Noahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-3757524892081652692015-02-05T12:10:15.456-05:002015-02-05T12:10:15.456-05:00Good post Simon. I too was pleasantly surprised b...Good post Simon. I too was pleasantly surprised by the approach Trudeau took here, and as you said and noted it was the exact right call to make. Nothing either opposition party can do will stop, slow or in any way get Harper to do anything he doesn't decide to do by his own choice. He has already demonstrated that is the way he governs, he was that way in minority and even more so in majority. So since they cannot do anything but make token protest and they leave themselves open to being massively attacked as untrustworthy on national security grounds the only smart way is to do what Trudeau did. Not just by accepting the bill but by stating up front that while they will vote for it regardless of whether the Government accepts their recommendations and amendments, if those are rejected they will be made a part of the core election platform of the Liberals and have the electorate say which they prefer, the Libs manage to show the ability to rise above partisanship on national security while not losing sight of the very real concerns and issues with this bill and the wider question of lack of oversight in our security infrastructure.<br /><br />One of the ways yesterday I noted the CPC is unhappy with how Trudeau dealt with this is how many comments on news comment threads from the hyper CPC partisans (whether paid staffers or not one cannot know, but that they are clearly taking their cues from the CPC leadership is clear) were of the "puppet Trudeau being played well by his puppet master(s)/Butts" variety. Mulcair may be making a major mistake if he doesn't immediately follow this path himself, and since Trudeau just took this choice I am willing to bet Mulcair instead tries to go farther away from it into total rejection of the CPC bill and trying to claim "Lib Tory same old story" on this one, same as Dippers love to do whenever they get the chance (I also think this because of the antipathy between the two leaders and Mulcair not wanting to feel like he looks like he is following Trudeau's lead on such an important issue, but that is simply a feeling). <br /><br />The problem is this is on a serious national security issue, and as hard as it is for me to say this not everything about this and what Harper says is wrong. Overblown, being used first for partisan purposes, failing to provide anything like sensible oversight, all of that is true, but just as Harper clearly overplays the threat out there, Mulcair and the NDP are running the risk of underplaying the reality of that threat, because there is a real one out there. It is not the earth shattering Cold War like one Harper keeps trying to sell, and the average citizen is aware that threat is there, even if they have a hard time getting an exact sense of it. That makes trying to deny the threat a serious potential weakness for those like Mulcair, and this bill could well in combination with his rejection of the Iraq deployment last fall be used to undercut NDP credibility in security, and that is not something that should be blithely brushed aside as I have alas seem some Dipper partisans do in the past.<br /><br />So again, very good post Simon, well considered, and in my view exactly correct. Thank you for understanding that the real war for Canadian progressives and centrists is against Harper first, and that the need to remove him at all costs means placing usual political partisan preferences aside until he is removes, preferably as harshly as possible in the next election.Scotianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06284856315992405261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-84499470976657899322015-02-05T11:46:51.856-05:002015-02-05T11:46:51.856-05:00Trudeau may have dodged a bullet with the idiots w...Trudeau may have dodged a bullet with the idiots who support Harper, but he's shown his true centrist colours by his actions..no, I won't support anything Junior says or does just to get rid of one problem and wind up with another..even Chretien was to the left of Justin Ttrudeau, and he did little that was promised over his long years in office..remember a thing called the GST?<br />His only shining moment was keeping us out of Iraq, and for that I'm grateful, but it doesn't make a political career any shinier in the long run...<br />As for Harper attacking Mulcair, it only shows that he is fearful.<br />I'm surprised that you are showing such support for Trudeau, but then, I understand ...all of us feel desperate about ridding ourselves of the scourge of the HarperCons but not at the expense of more waffling of the Libs...<br />mizdarlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14442803514546577849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-42764805006372058822015-02-05T11:35:42.541-05:002015-02-05T11:35:42.541-05:00Simon , initially I was very disappointed in Trude...Simon , initially I was very disappointed in Trudeau agreeing to pass Bill C-51, but your article has got me thinking. Maybe this was the smart thing for Trudeau to do. I'll give it more thought.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07842215982128591742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-37794469948110288092015-02-05T09:58:47.382-05:002015-02-05T09:58:47.382-05:00Simon, your optimism is contagious. But I would wa...Simon, your optimism is contagious. But I would warn you to temper it with reason and caution. History has taught us better. The end never justifies the means, the means determine the end, ALWAYS. Even if Trudeau is a paragon of virtue, which I doubt it, he is not alone, he is surrounded by very powerful man and there are plenty of links among the men behind the scenes in Trudeau's and Harper's camps. As far as we know no one has attempted to do what Harper is doing before because they where afraid of a popular revolt, Harper proved that he could circumvent public opinion and common good for the benefit of the few, those behind Trudeau may be tempted to use these new powers just as much as Harper. After all a return to the conditions and status quo prior to the social revolutions of the 19 th century and the labour wars of the 20th century has been their goal. I do not know if we can trust Trudeau, but I do know that this bill will forever change what Canada is the moment its passed. The right course of action would be to show the people the dangers of this law, and the mistakes of the past. Once its passed I doubt it will ever be revoked and the Canada you knew will forever be gone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-13191633436565013802015-02-05T09:42:58.023-05:002015-02-05T09:42:58.023-05:00The 2015 federal election is an emergency. VOTE TO...The 2015 federal election is an emergency. VOTE TOGETHER for the candidate from ANY party who has the best chance to defeat the Conservative candidate. No more vote splitting. Job #1 MUST be to take away Harper's majority. Ignore party rhetoric, promises and fear mongering. No more vote splitting. www.votetogether.caAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14941244152778401690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-5982903851808623462015-02-05T08:24:36.691-05:002015-02-05T08:24:36.691-05:00hi Christine...I can understand your reaction. But...hi Christine...I can understand your reaction. But we progressives must also understand that we are fighting a desperate battle for the survival of our country and we must do what we must to win. If we neutralize Harper's advantage on the terror front, then we can destroy his on the economic front, where he is truly vulnerable. Fail to do the first and we could lose everything including our country...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-14727366178541892652015-02-05T08:11:21.140-05:002015-02-05T08:11:21.140-05:00hi Morlock...Bill C-51 is indeed a bad bill, but T...hi Morlock...Bill C-51 is indeed a bad bill, but Trudeau didn't fall into a trap he avoided one. For what good would it be to vote against a bill that will pass anyway? And the only way to scrap the bill is to defeat the Cons. I've noticed a lot of progressives can't see the forest for the trees, but it's time they smartened up. For there are wolves in the woods, and they will destroy the dumb...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-46433444141781758442015-02-05T08:07:52.138-05:002015-02-05T08:07:52.138-05:00hi David...yes it is interesting that only Jason K...hi David...yes it is interesting that only Jason Kenney has gone on record to warn that the bill should be carefully balanced. That tells me that some in his rabid base are concerned, but since even those morons can see that its an obvious trap, they are clearly choosing to remain silent and see what happens. However, I wouldn't rule out a mini-revolt by the libertarian bill, especially when they hear the hapless stooge Steve Blaney try to sell it...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-73624012417594741632015-02-05T08:04:04.698-05:002015-02-05T08:04:04.698-05:00hi anon...I have to admit that I was pleasantly su...hi anon...I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised by the deft way Justin Trudeau handled this obvious trap. And although I recognize it will be harder for Tom Mulcair to extricate himself if he wants to remain a serious contender he will have to find some way to do that...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-65874374658005688362015-02-05T08:01:28.282-05:002015-02-05T08:01:28.282-05:00hi plop...as I said at the beginning of my post it...hi plop...as I said at the beginning of my post it's not easy to support a bill that is so flawed. But when you're in a war you must do what you have to do to win. Because what good what it do to vote against the bill, and end up losing the election. Progressives are going to have to be very smart or they will regret it forever, and there will not be much left of Canada by the time Harper has finished wrecking it...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-15567135998638067982015-02-05T07:58:28.301-05:002015-02-05T07:58:28.301-05:00hi Kathleen...Harper is a psychopath with a crimin...hi Kathleen...Harper is a psychopath with a criminal mind, so he is capable of anything and he is extremely dangerous. And if anyone is dumb enough to fall into his trap, they will pay horrible price...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-59567725768475326402015-02-05T07:56:43.726-05:002015-02-05T07:56:43.726-05:00hi Grant...as I said in my post, the law is an ass...hi Grant...as I said in my post, the law is an ass, but there is nothing the opposition can do to stop it from passing, and the only way to change it is by defeating the Cons...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-87825433120505711192015-02-05T07:54:37.853-05:002015-02-05T07:54:37.853-05:00hi anon...yes anyone who trusts Harper at this poi...hi anon...yes anyone who trusts Harper at this point must either be totally corrupted or an absolute idiot. And yes I remember that clip well, and it was totally pathetic. It's bad enough being a stooge of Israel, but being a stooge of AUSTRALIA? How down under can you go?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-81330533140494761772015-02-05T07:51:53.759-05:002015-02-05T07:51:53.759-05:00hi Grant...thanks. I realize some might not like w...hi Grant...thanks. I realize some might not like what I'm saying, but the time has come to say it like it is. The terrorist scare has given Harper a big boost in the polls, and it has to be handled as delicately as a ticking time bomb or it could explode in our faces. And in that regard I thought Trudeau did a brilliant job of defusing that bomb. People must understand that this is not an academic debate about a bad law, it's about winning the next election, and saving our country...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-77203644107574702512015-02-05T06:26:22.835-05:002015-02-05T06:26:22.835-05:00Bill 51 is a Terrorist Act. It's meant to inti...Bill 51 is a Terrorist Act. It's meant to intimidate the public. It legalizes Federal terrorism and violates the Charter.<br /><br />Trudeau fells right into Harper's trap.Morlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16127053781975840041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-8561269421960309912015-02-05T04:40:14.158-05:002015-02-05T04:40:14.158-05:00My initial reaction was negative, but I now unders...My initial reaction was negative, but I now understand why it was the best strategy.Christinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-59505543864578207112015-02-05T02:31:01.183-05:002015-02-05T02:31:01.183-05:00Canadian Press journalist Jennifer Ditchburn asked...Canadian Press journalist Jennifer Ditchburn asked on CBC's Power & Politics (Feb. 4) why haven't we heard any conservatives/Conservatives--who are supposedly really big on freedom of speech--express ANY reservations about Harper's anti-terrorism bill?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630890163958807048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-13651342022474671842015-02-04T22:46:23.514-05:002015-02-04T22:46:23.514-05:00"In short, stay cool, play smart. Like Justin..."In short, stay cool, play smart. Like Justin Trudeau did today, and Tom Mulcair would be well advised to emulate."<br /><br />You're right Simon. Trudeau and his team are playing a very thoughtful game of chess here. And the ultimate goal of chess is to destroy your opponent. And if Tom won't play, then maybe he should sit this one out. There will always be another game.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com