tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post5593428143828917387..comments2024-03-03T17:01:57.876-05:00Comments on Montreal Simon: The Cons, the NDP, and the Referendum TrapSimonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-12928486384611024982016-11-18T08:42:44.346-05:002016-11-18T08:42:44.346-05:00hi Ron...all that may be true but our parliamentar...hi Ron...all that may be true but our parliamentary system helps set us apart from the Americans which is a good thing, and w must play with the hand we have been dealt. But while we're at it, one thing I am very disappointed about is that nobody has suggested giving the vote to sixteen and seventeen year olds, as they have done in Scotland with amazing results. Studies show that the sooner you engage young people in the electoral process, the better the chance that they will become steady voters for the rest of their lives. As well as shake up and revitalize the whole political scene. But then in this aging country where so many older people hate the young, why should I be surprised that nobody should even suggest that change? Pity.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-3353170199091099842016-11-18T08:34:20.590-05:002016-11-18T08:34:20.590-05:00hi anon 11:34pm...I'm afraid you're right....hi anon 11:34pm...I'm afraid you're right. I didn't use a dead parrot to illustrate the state of the party for nothing. There are good people in that party but thanks to the leadership of the Con Mulcair they are going nowhere...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-75280743934272586342016-11-18T08:32:35.477-05:002016-11-18T08:32:35.477-05:00hi RT....yes you're probably right, but the Li...hi RT....yes you're probably right, but the Liberals did promise to consult Canadians as much as possible, and they gave in to the demands of the opposition too easily. However, since the Liberals are like to win the next election even with the FPTP system still in place, when Canadians vote they could also vote at that time for the system they prefer, like they do with other issues in the United States. It would be cheaper and more efficient, and there would be a lot more time to educate the public. For unless they are educated and motivated it will go nowhere...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-72313252775366393172016-11-18T08:27:32.892-05:002016-11-18T08:27:32.892-05:00hi e.a.f...as long as we keep the FPTP system, and...hi e.a.f...as long as we keep the FPTP system, and progressives are divided, the Cons will be able to use it to rule us again. The only reason the FPTP system worked for us last time was that the need for change was overwhelming, and the NDP vote collapsed. We can't count on that happening again, so in my opinion this is our last chance to bury the Cons forever...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-19422243544176357512016-11-18T08:23:28.588-05:002016-11-18T08:23:28.588-05:00hi Ron...well you may be right. The Liberals could...hi Ron...well you may be right. The Liberals could agree to a referendum and see the idea go down the toilet. But they have made an honest effort, they have consulted Canadians, and they gave up their majority on that committee which they didn't have to do. I'm starting to believe that the Liberals should have just decided to go with a ranked ballot, and if the voters didn't like it they could have voted them out of office. <br />And while I'm sure many in the Liberal establishment are for the status quo, the bigger question is whether most Canadians favour that as well...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-55770128993779714332016-11-18T08:17:51.673-05:002016-11-18T08:17:51.673-05:00hi MC...please don't compare the Liberal victo...hi MC...please don't compare the Liberal victory for decency and tolerance to the victory of Trump and his deplorables, for there is no comparison. However much you may hate the Liberals they are not bigots and misogynists. And our country is presently regarded as a beacon of light in the darkness...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-60959641328349855932016-11-18T08:14:32.594-05:002016-11-18T08:14:32.594-05:00hi anon 12:22pm...yes I agree with you. I think th...hi anon 12:22pm...yes I agree with you. I think that Trudeau should never have surrendered his majority on that committee, because it was obvious to me that given a chance the opposition parties would only play cheap politics. It was an election promise, the Liberals won the election, and they have the support of most <br />Canadians to do anything they want...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-80198257916012028842016-11-18T08:11:56.168-05:002016-11-18T08:11:56.168-05:00hi anon 11:13...yes I think you're right. It s...hi anon 11:13...yes I think you're right. It should let the government know what Canadians are looking for, and it will be much much cheaper and better than a divisive referendum...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-32273451253028648492016-11-18T08:10:10.141-05:002016-11-18T08:10:10.141-05:00hi runleyfips...yes I forgot to mention the mass m...hi runleyfips...yes I forgot to mention the mass mailing the government is planning. But I see the NDP is really worried about it, with good reason. For it will give the government a good idea of what Canadians think, and give them some idea about how to proceed...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-59483513981662009672016-11-18T08:07:31.155-05:002016-11-18T08:07:31.155-05:00hi Steve...As I said in my post, a referendum woul...hi Steve...As I said in my post, a referendum would almost certainly bury electoral reform for a generation. For two good reasons. One, nobody would want to go through a divisive exercise like that one for a long time after. Two, most Canadians are too dumb to understand the subject. And three, this is an elite issue, and most Canadians don't give a damn...Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309809679331128837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-750046681023821152016-11-18T01:23:09.366-05:002016-11-18T01:23:09.366-05:00If people think Trump is bad, just think that he c...If people think Trump is bad, just think that he could get absolute corrupt power on 38% of the vote in Canada. And who knows what kind of populism the Con leader will bring in 2019?<br /><br />In the US, Trump needed about 50% of the vote to win the election. (A majority of state votes.) He won the House and the Senate. A super-majority. (Three actual 50% majorities.) But even still, in the US there are no party whips. Representatives are not trained seals. They can vote against a bill they don't like. Can flip opposition members to support a bill. <br /><br />In Canada, what the indirectly-elected PM says goes. No ifs, ands or buts. A 'benign dictatorship.' Not always so benign.Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-44132363862457344282016-11-18T01:16:31.672-05:002016-11-18T01:16:31.672-05:00Australians are kinda weird. Mandatory voting. Man...Australians are kinda weird. Mandatory voting. Mandatory ranking of all parties on the ballot. That wouldn't happen here. People could still scratch an X on the ballot if they wanted to.Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-29510797027917591132016-11-17T23:34:54.532-05:002016-11-17T23:34:54.532-05:00The NDP has lost its way. It's getting harder ...The NDP has lost its way. It's getting harder every day to distinguish them from the Cons. All they care about is trying to drag down Trudeau thinking that will make them popular.Good luck with that one. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-90860378308975708952016-11-17T23:13:25.556-05:002016-11-17T23:13:25.556-05:00With a large participation rate this will act simi...With a large participation rate this will act similar to the recent census. People can respond online, by phone or mail like the census. It is cheaper and likely a better turnout than a referendum. Also allows for more info than a yes or no. DNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-6266765591284820582016-11-17T21:51:34.370-05:002016-11-17T21:51:34.370-05:00Have had a sister in Australia since 1971 and I be...Have had a sister in Australia since 1971 and I believe she said that in the last election, they had no less than 22 parties, and you were obliged to rank them all. Imagine that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-87263023762921397152016-11-17T20:53:18.010-05:002016-11-17T20:53:18.010-05:00Trudeau and the Libs should have implemented a sim...Trudeau and the Libs should have implemented a simple ranked ballot voting system shortly after the last election.They made the promise,had the mandate,and did not act (at least to-date). All the rest pales in comparison. Without it the possibility of a Trump Tower North is a continued threat in a few years time as nostalgic voters delude themselves into believing a return to a new improved yesteryear is just a matter of faith.<br />RT<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-60289712996193161532016-11-17T20:23:56.552-05:002016-11-17T20:23:56.552-05:00First past the post will most likely continue as t...First past the post will most likely continue as the Canadian system. Why? because we were able to get rid of the dreaded Cons with it. The Cons would like a referendum because as you noted that will be the end of proportional representation for a while. Of course the Cons are banking on the federal Liberals screwing up in the not so distant future, leaving them to take the lead of course. What they haven't considered is that it will be at least 10 to 15 years before that happens and by then who knows the NDP MAy HAVE gotten their act together again and be given a chance. <br /><br />The real problem with representational is it hasn't been explained well enough to most Canadians. As to what Canadians want or don't want, lets not rely on polls or what 'experts' think. <br /><br />Proportional representation was quite thoroughly examined at one time in B.C. but was the voters voted against it. The demographics in Canada are changing and this too may impact voters attitudes to the various voting systems.e.a.f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-56720129786022443412016-11-17T17:59:24.493-05:002016-11-17T17:59:24.493-05:00I think you've got that the wrong way around. ...I think you've got that the wrong way around. The Cons <b>lost</b> the last election and they're the ones fighting electoral change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-29657345738986265622016-11-17T15:51:40.606-05:002016-11-17T15:51:40.606-05:00Hmmm funny how the people who say Trudeau won the ...Hmmm funny how the people who say Trudeau won the election, end of story, now the Liberals can do what they want... are the same people who are fighting tooth and nail the fact that Trump won the election down south.<br /><br />If "your guy" wins it's all fine and dandy, but if "our guy" wins oh no no no this isn't happening we're going to fight this.<br /><br />-MCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-77448504204603118702016-11-17T15:45:17.436-05:002016-11-17T15:45:17.436-05:00According to Her Honorable Maryam Monsef we don...According to Her Honorable Maryam Monsef we don't need a referendum. Likes on Facebook and Retweets on Twitter is the best way to judge if we need electoral reform. After all, it is the Current Year.<br /><br />-MCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-75122392310263577582016-11-17T13:28:03.708-05:002016-11-17T13:28:03.708-05:00Dippers know that Trudeau is going to do simple ra...Dippers know that Trudeau is going to do simple ranked ballots and that PEIers just voted for MMP in a ranked-ballot 'plebiscite'. (The real referendum will another false-choice two-option polarized vote with caveman voting designed to win, including media collusion.) So they want to roll the dice. <br /><br />They are ignorant of how ranked ballots could benefit the party. With the Liberals and NDP competing directly for center-left votes, the Liberals can no longer play the "a vote for the NDP is a vote for the Cons" card. <br /><br />A voter can safely vote: #1 NDP, #2 Liberal, and suddenly the NDP can form the government if the Liberals got nothing but neoliberal clap trap.<br /><br />It's all politics. The NDP can't be sensible because their base has conditioned themselves to get hysterical anytime anyone mentions 'ranked ballots.' Thanks to Fair Vote Canada's weasel politicking.<br /><br />So the ER committee will vote for a referendum. Votes for: 3 Con, 2 NDP, 1 Green, 1 BQ (they said they want a referendum to dredge up the constitutional issue); Votes against: 4 Lib. So, 7 vs 4 for referendum.<br /><br />Trudeau will say a referendum is too divisive and will drop it. No electoral reform. Trudeau is safe to wash his hands of it. Establishment Liberals never wanted it in the first place. The establishment media will praise him for it. <br /><br />Canada may one day become a democracy. But not this time around. (Not PEI either.)Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-12090022861314032222016-11-17T12:22:26.065-05:002016-11-17T12:22:26.065-05:00Fuck a referendum. We just had one. It's cal...Fuck a referendum. We just had one. It's called a general election, and guess what? We gave the Liberals an overwhelming mandate to modernize Canada. That includes reforming our antiquated and unfair first past the post electoral system.<br /><br />So Ambrose and her ilk can go to hell, or better yet move to Trumpland where they belong. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-35567944818353690032016-11-17T10:11:04.917-05:002016-11-17T10:11:04.917-05:00I can hardly wait for December when I get my postc...I can hardly wait for December when I get my postcard to participate. Is this not a quick, cheap referendum and a better way to vote?rumleyfipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03346146988416679423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23253782.post-49800449384375956412016-11-17T09:38:46.094-05:002016-11-17T09:38:46.094-05:00Everyone knows a referendum on PR would fail just ...Everyone knows a referendum on PR would fail just like a referendum asking if people want to pay taxes.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162783936999869984noreply@blogger.com